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66 professional companies in one town?

Posted by Katherine_Lyall-Watson, 19 June 2009 - 9:32am
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How do we turn Brisbane into a thriving town for theatre? A town with at least 15 professional companies paying their artists for rehearsals and performance?

(If you think this sounds crazy and unrealistic, read on a few paragraphs.)

Sorts of theatre

First up, we have to create something that people want to come to. And this means shows that are spectacular, exciting and non-text based as Zane has commented, as well as shows that are more traditional and just as exciting.

We need diversity in theatre. We need to offer the classics - from here and overseas - and new work. We need to offer circus, dance, multimedia and theatre. The best touring shows from other states and other countries should complement the brilliant work on offer from our local companies and artists.

We should have Indigenous theatre and shows from the many different cultures who call Brisbane home, as well as Shakespeare, Ayckbourn and Nowra. Not all our shows should be in English - maybe we can use subtitles like the opera for ones that aren't.

We should all be seeing and engaging with as much other work as we possibly can. The more we see and think critically about other people's shows (why does/doesn't this work, how can I apply it to my own craft etc.), the more we can learn and improve our own.

The reason I'm thinking about all this is because Rob Pensalfini's facebook status recently said: "just leaving Minneapolis, a city one third the population of Brisbane where there are 66 fully professional (ie they pay everyone) theatre companies!"

The Minneapolis model

Now a statement like this takes some time to digest. Did he really say that Minneapolis has 66 professional theatre companies? Is their population really a third of Brisbane's?

I went straight to google to have a look at what is happening right now (ie the day I wrote this) on Minneapolis's stages.

There's comedy theatre, children's theatre - using children in the cast as well as aiming the show at families, African-American musicals, a show with the strangest title I've come across: The Intelligent Homosexual's Guide to Capitalism and Socialism with a Key to the Scriptures, a tragi-comedy about Alzheimer's, more musicals, a one-man show, a new play by a Pulitzer Prize winner, there's socially responsible theatre, theatre dedicated to Martin Luther King's message, theatre restaurants and puppet theatre.

The city's official website opens with: "Minneapolis's theater scene digs deep. We're home to more than 75 working theater companies, including 2 Tony Award winners." How cool is that?

This isn't meant to send all Brisbane's theatre workers to Minneapolis, what I want to start looking at is how we can get some of that action happening here, in our home town.

Rob pointed out that, "In Minneapolis there's a huge diversity of performance types, some quite specialised, in professional theatre. And everyone goes to the theatre."

Getting people to come

Ah, I hear you say, but Australians don't like theatre, we're all sports mad. But Rob pointed out that Americans are every bit as sport mad as Australians. They don't see it as an either/or thing. You go to the theatre on Wednesday night and to a game on the weekend.

So how do we get a community that goes to the theatre and a theatre scene where we provide a diversity of shows where there's something for everyone? We need lots of small, affordable venues as a starting point. But there's no point in investing in more venues if we don't have the work to put on in them and the audiences to visit them.

What do we need and where should we begin? Over to you for your thoughts ...

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Kate Foy says:

One key issue here is geography or the old 'location, location, location' thing.

Have a look at where Minneapolis is on the map. With large feeder cities all round (Canadian and US) there is a potential audience waiting to be tapped. The US Oregon Shakespeare Festival (largest in the country) and the Stratford ONT Festival of Canada are located in regional towns/cities, but have huge audiences from nearby densely populated areas. Stratford draws on Chicago and NYC, for example, while Ashland OR pulls in the California crowd.

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robpensalfini from Fairfield says:

Crikey! I'm in Chicago at the moment (another theatre mecca of course, but also sports-mad - the entire city stopped for the Cubs vs Sox today), and I was at a "Children's Museum" today (it's a parent thing, basically a giant well-equipped playground, think Qld State Library's Corner on a grander scale)... this place was in an outer suburb, too, about an hour's drive from downtown...

...anyway I hadn't been there five minutes when I overheard two mums talking about what shows were on downtown. And they were talking about theatre for grown-ups, not kids.

Now, I've been to parent-zones aplenty in Brisbane and have NEVER heard conversations like that.

So this is just to underline my point that theatre is just part of people's consciousness in many US cities. And Katherine hits it right on the head when she says that it's diversity that's the key. There is theatre for all sorts, so all sorts go to theatre.

WHY this diversity?

Undoubtedly a host of factors. I don't think government funding is among them. I haven't done any research on the matter, but from what I've seen and heard, the level of per capita public arts funding is no higher in the US. There IS a much higher level of corporate and philanthropic funding, but whether this is the cause or a result of the diversity is open to question - it's probably mutually reinforcing.

But one big difference I've noticed here is that theatre companies in the smaller US cities in particular are much more deeply rooted in communities (as opposed that mythical monolith "the community") than their Australian counterparts. The companies I speak of in the US tend to arise out of and work alongside communities. They engage communities and their members as a matter of course, not as part of some tacked-on 'outreach' program. Most of the bigger companies here have programs that run in the communities, and this work is carried out by their best and brightest, whereas in Australia this kind of 'applied' work is often thought of by (would-be) professional performers as 'less than' performing for anonymous audiences in the big venues.

In fact I've recently discovered through my own work that in Australia there seems to be a performance community on the one hand and an applied theatre community on the other, and rarely the twain do meet. That sort of division doesn't exist to the same extent in the US because performance is so often an extension of the public voice of a community.

I am one of those who, each for our own reasons, choose to base myself in Queensland and want to contribute to a diverse performing arts sector for the state. We're not all originally Queenslanders - I myself am Perth-born and bred (100% Italo-Sandgroper) - and for what it's worth my household was one of those non-English-speaking ones for much of my childhood (til I started speaking English in it).

[by the by, Perth has more small to medium theatre venues than Brisbane, and is a smaller city - and in Perth I was involved in Italian theatre, French theatre etc]

What many of us want to do is, as Katherine has suggested, find out how we as artists can contribute to growing the sustainable diversity of the performing arts sector here. It's not the first time I've said, nor am I alone in saying it, that it's not up to governments to give us more money (alone), nor up to people to start coming to our shows out of a sense of duty, but it must begin with us. I think the key is in our relationships with our communities.

And now I'm off to live in the sand dunes on Lake Michigan for a week - if the tornados don't get me.

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robpensalfini from Fairfield says:

Kate you're right, up to a point. But Minneapolis is an eight hour drive from Chicago, six hours from Milwaukee, and eight hours to the Canadian border (let alone any of Canada's cities). It's pretty isolated as US cities go (admittedly not as isolated as, say, Perth). The big difference is not the out of towners but that LOCALS go to the theatre.

Yes folks from Chicago go to Stratford to see Shakespeare, but Chicago also has a massively successful Shakespeare festival of its own right on the main pier (I was distantly involved with them when they were still performing in whatever hall they could get a hold of, ten years ago).

And Yes, Ashland draws the California crowd (though San Fran to Ashland is a six and a half hour drive, add another full day from LA), but that doesn't stop every city in California of any size from ALSO having its own professional Shakespeare festival.

Sometimes we seem a bit stuck in Australia with the idea that there's only so many bums that we can get on the seats, and that the more theatre there is, the fewer bums per performance. But the kind of stuff we're discussing here suggests the opposite.

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Tibor from Red Hill says:

Really interesting example Katherine. I do want to mention a few things though that might make Brisbane an apple and Minneapolis an orange.

Minneapolis is one of the 'twin cities' of Minnesota. When you add the population of St Paul (which is across the river) you have a total of more than 3 million.

Maybe there are 66 theatre companies in St Paul as well...or maybe Minneapolis is the theatre district. I honestly don't know.

Another thing worth mentioning is that Minnesota is one of the most progressive states in America. It's not Vermont, but its definitely swimming in one of the far left lanes in the pool.

Brisbane is fair-minded and a great town, but its fair to say that collectively, we are a little less progressive than the folks in the twin cities. Again I could be wrong here....just guessing

I also was going to ask a question which might be difficult to answer. When you say everyone in these companies are paid...do you mean that theatre receives significantly more public funding in Minnesota or do you mean that these companies are profitable in their own right? Is it a bit of both? Either way its interesting.

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Kate Foy says:

@Tibor. You make a good point here about the twin cities of Minnesota, and I am certain this has something to do with the apparent proliferation of professional theatre companies in that neck of the woods.

@Rob Ever known a Shakespeare festival fan baulk at a paltry 6-8 hour drive? :-) They go for more than one show. It's why B&Bs do such great business in festival towns. As for Ashland and the whole north American Shakespeare festival phenomenon, many folks drive in, but others fly. I tried to (stupidly) one January and got stuck in an ice storm in Portland for 3 days (but another story).

It would be interesting to see whether or not climate plays a role in developing a theatre-going culture - this is being suggested in another forum right now, and just whose bums fill those seats: townies or out of townies. There is recent research to suggest however, that the majority of theatre-goers in Brisbane live within reasonable proximity to the CBD. I'm wondering about transportation issues now ... and can feel a research project for someone coming on!

@Katherine and anyone else ... the issue of what constitutes 'professional' when it's used as a qualifier for a theatre company probably needs tidying up. A lot of the community-grounded groups which Rob refers to may or may not consider themselves professional, may or may not pay professional i.e., union award rates. I wonder as Tibor suggests whether comparing the apples of Brisbane and the oranges of anywhere else can properly begin until this issue is clarified. I've done a lot of Shakespeare Festivals in California (as an audience member) and I'm not sure about the standard or self-styling as 'professional' even if the artists and creatives were paid ... but that's another matter.

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Katherine_Lyall-Watson says:

Good points everyone - thanks for contributing to the debate.

In my head, professional means paid. It means you don't have to take another job to support the time you spend making theatre. Professional standards are another topic ... most of the theatre I see in Brisbane is of a professional standard, but a lot of it is unpaid or paid at a minimum rate.

I don't know how much the companies in Minnesota pay their actors/designers/directors and whether it equates to our equity minimums here, but if it's a decent wage then I consider it professional.

@tibor - re size of populations: even if St Paul has no theatre companies, 66 professional companies between the two cities is amazing. At 1.85 million, we have more than half the population of their two cities combined and, oh, about a sixteenth of the professional companies.

Re where the money comes from - apparently they don't get more govt funding than we do, but they have extensive philanthropical funding - and, yes, more bums on seats.

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Zane from Slacks Creek says:

Latest arrogant and pretentious posting for Slacks Creek:

Every time a new initiative begins in Brisbane the right wing press/media and the boring old arts farts scream "there are too many - theatres, festivals, artists, ideas - in Brisbane!!!!".

Brisbane has much less professional theatre (in both senses ;-) of all kinds than Melbourne or Sydney.

Queensland Govt. spends less (now and historically) overall on the arts than Victoria or NSW.

Brisbane City Council spends less on the arts than Sydney or Melbourne.

Queensland Govts of both the left and right have historically sought, on moral grounds, to "control and regulate" culture rather than let it develop of its' own accord.

Brisbane has far less commercial theatre than Sydney or Melbourne. It does have loads of bad amateur theatre which claims to be commercial when it suits it or community when it suits it.

Brisbane has a good youth arts community, but even that is nowhere near as well developed as Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney or even Perth.

Brisbane has no community "theatre" other than Vulcana which is circus, and Flipside, which is youth arts.

First off it would help matters if Brisbane stopped crowing about how progressive and leading edge it is when it obviously isn't. The above scenario can be repeated for dance, contemporary classical music and for contemporary visual art in terms of numbers of funded companies and venues. Brisbane simply does not stack up in any way at all.

Second off Brisbane needs to loosen up morally, so another non-news ltd. daily newspaper would really help. Or at least an arts street press of some kind that allowed a celebration of the existing contemporary culture rather than the complete ignorance and hatred of it that dominates the media now.

Third off the arts community needs a collective voice independent of Government. So that it can give government a hard time (a really hard time) without fear. Every time the Premier or Qld Arts Minister says something like "Queensland is leading the way in the arts...." there needs to be an industry press release out to every single media outlet..the same day...signed on behalf of everybody..saying "the Minister is talking absolute rubbish...".

We need more theatres (buildings) that artists can afford to hire. We need more companies funded annually to do diverse work. We need more boutique festivals properly funded. We need funded organisations for contemporary performance..we need funded organisations for multi-cultural performance. We need some funded community theatre. This at least would begin to give us equity with other Australian States and cities.

And if someone (usually the right wing of the press and the right wing of the arts) says “there just aren’t the audiences....” and “Brisbane audiences aren’t ready for all that contemporary stuff”. Well then I say..Bol#ocks!!! The audiences for the Asia Pacific Triennial and GOMA are HUGE.That’s "ordinary Queenslanders" soaking up contemporary art (difficult, pretentious, complicated, demanding, challenging, elitist, PC, post-modern contemporary art ;-) in droves. The APT is the most successful, interesting and progressive visual arts event staged by any large public gallery in Australia, it has developed an international reputation for Brisbane that far exceeds any other Brisbane or Queensland based festival and its local audiences are vast. So where, say, is the Asia Pacific Theatre Triennial??????????

How come Queensland Art Gallery has had the foresight and vision to do such a thing when all QPAC does is sit on its’ arse and wait for the next third rate musical to tour????

If we ever get to make the theatre we want the audiences will come with us. And then all the good artists in Brisbane won’t need to go to London, Singapore, NY or Sydney & Melbourne to make good contemporary work. They’ll be so much theatre (yes...of all kinds) the news ltd press might even have to write about it now and again.

End of too long a rant (sorry ...!).

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Ben Eltham from Melbourne says:

I have long meditated on the difficulty of establishing a viable small-to-medium arts sector in Brisbane.

Here are six possible contributing factors:

Firstly, I think a big part of the problem is a lack of decent marketing by small companies. They really struggle to reach out to audiences, and ther isn't the same organic community-based marketing that you see in Melbourne. The theatre-blogging community in Brisbane is far less active than in Melbourne, for instance.

A second problem is the insularity of the Australian theatre sector in general. Theatre types don't, in my experience, tend to go out and evangelise for theatre as an artform; they tend to hang out in fairly small groups with each other. This means theatre doesn't sell itself particularly well to the broader arts community. This is also true of Brisbane.

A third problem specifically for Brisbane is the tendency for both audiences and practitioners to leave for Sydney and/or Melbourne. This generally occurs for people straight out of uni in their early to mid 20s and so tends to denude the scene of the very audiences who would support small and interesting theatre.

A fourth issue is that the established theatre companies in Brisbane don't see it as their role to develop the entire theatre scene. QTC and La Boite should be working in partnership with independent companies and in particular offering their marketing resources to them; subscribers to the main-stage companies, for example, are an obvious source of independent theatre audiences and those smaller companies should be able to advertise to them for free through their email lists.

Fifth, as you mention Katherine, there is a lack of appropriate venue infrastructure. There's also a lot of missing "soft" infrastructure. No proper Fringe Festival and no comedy festival are two really obvious cases in point.

Sixth, the difficulty of making a living in Brisbane has turned many theatre and arts practitioners there quite bitter. The pessimism of people like Sean Mee, Zane Trow and Ian Brown, who should be leaders, has a corrosive effect on the whole scene.

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Flloyd from Bardon says:

This debate has been happening in Brisbane, on and off, for as long as I have been here (1997) and almost certainly way before then. In my experience, it usually starts with someone wondering why theatre in Brisbane has such a small footprint, when there is obviously so much creative and innovative talent around. Comparisons are made, numbers are quoted, and then someone asks for clarity surrounding the term 'professional'. There is a lot of talk about whether it should mean 'paid' or whether it should imply a certain standard, or quality of production, or a particular approach to creating work. Then it will be stated that most, if not all of the theatre that happens in Brisbane is actually of a 'professional standard', and if anyone disagrees (usually me) they are very quickly talked down.

I don't agree with Katherine that matters of professional standards are a different topic. I think it is important that we are honest with ourselves, about ourselves, that we aspire to the highest standards of professionalism and that we are rigorously constructive in the way we support each other.

We have a fine tradition of amateur (Little) theatre in Brisbane, and I support its existence, and respect the integrity of those who make it happen. However, it is a different animal from professional theatre, and I would dearly love to have BOTH functioning with healthy mutual respect.

I just took a look online to see what is on in Brisbane by way of live theatre tonight - and I had to look quite hard to find these...

Macbeth the Contemporary Rock Opera (don't know who gets paid, if anyone)
QPAC Cremorne Theatre, cnr Grey and Melbourne Street, South Bank

25 Down (QTC, full pay for all)
Venue Bille Brown Studio, 78 Montague Rd, South Brisbane

X-Collective Circus of Fools (Queensland Orchestra - not sure what this is!) Qld Academy for Creative Industries, 61 Musk Avenue, Kelvin Grove

The Miracle Worker (Crossbow Theatre - people get paid a small fee)

Death Trap (Stage Door Theatre - paid, but not much apparently)

Secret Travel Agents - Wonargo Cultural Centre, Northgate (no idea, I've never heard of it, the advert gives no info about who is doing it)

Terra Nova, Centre Stage, Hamilton (as far as I am aware, unpaid amateur co)

That leaves us with a possible 7 different companies on stage tonight, and possibly some w-in-p at Metro. I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent. It's just a fact. Some are paid Union rates, some are paid a fee, some are unpaid. How would you know? Only by working with them.

Brisbane Arts Theatre and Nash Theatre seem to be dark this week. They are undoubtedly amateur, but they don't advertise that, and for young actors wanting to strut their stuff on stage they are a logical port of call.

Metro Arts is running its Creative Development Festival.

QSE is dark. 23rd Productions likewise. These are - like the rest of the Brisbane based theatre companies, project to project organisations. Even QTC and LaBoite hire by the project. There is no way a whole community of actors could earn a living just acting in this set up.

Actually, I'd be surprised if many of the US theatre companies we've been referring to are year round fully-funded paying actors to work through a season. I suspect many of them are also project-based. Hence most US actors I know also do other work, whether it's serving in Starbucks, or being a journeyman plumber.

I know I haven't said anything you guys don't already know. And I haven't moved this debate on a single dot on the road. I so dearly want Brisbane to get off this roundabout, I want us to bite the bullet and admit our shortcomings, and take some radical steps to change the situation. And yes, I do believe it is up to us, the creative people who actually make the work, to do the changing. We live in a culture which is determined to make someone else responsible for getting things done, so we have the politicians who believe it is their job to tell artists what they should be doing, rather than - as a chap said recently at a very interesting forum - asking the artists what they need.

That reminds me, the forum mentioned was run by a newly set up organisation called BrisCulture. I'm watching it with interest. Check it out here http://brisculture.com/.

Oh dear, there I go again, shooting my mouth off. So shoot me down in flames, at least I'll be warm!

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Kathryn Fray from Red Hill says:

GOD! SOOOOOOOOOO much I want to say here, but not enought time ATM as... I am off to the theatre. (may I suggest you all, except Rob, go to Metro Arts tonight for the showing of the new Dogs on the Roof play. Not that Rob isn't allowed, it just might be a bit far...)

Anyhoo, I am glad that we are not Bris Bashing. When I first got here from London I did a lot of that. Brisbane and London (theatrically speaking), is for the most part an apples and oranges conversation. But there is a lot to say none the less and I just wanted a quick chuck in before I hit the stalls.

We actaully have quite a few venues here. I am thrilled to discover that both Griffith and QUT have some very sexy new spaces. In the UK theatres at unis are very much a part of a touring schedule. I was only saying to my partner in crime last night that having a variety of differenct sized venues in various locations is great but how to we get the GP (and trade for that matter too), to accept and go to them as they might QTC, LB, the Powerhouse and Metro Arts? Those uni venues could be part of a great partnership for the indi mob like me.

I AGREE SOOOOOO MUCH with Rob about the sport / theatre relationship. Again, in the UK football saturday, theatre and cinema other nights (I was a card carrying, scarf waving, pint drinking member of the Tottenham Hotspurs Football Club for years). Also my bestie works in theatre in LA and they have great houses these days - this in the heart of Hollywood!

I think transport and infrustructure does play a big part. PT to the Powerhouse is CRAP and they have bugger all parking. I love the program there but often need to leave 2 days before a show to get a car space...

And lastly (said this before). MEDIA> If theatre got as much coverage as the State of Origin I recon folks would go - at the very least to check it out. But in a GIANT state we have ONE STATE NEWSPAPER! And there is only so much Sue Gough (and collumn inchs) to go round. And commercial TV channels only like covering a big noise like CHICAGO. (that said, Katherine you know how much I love and appreciate what you do on this and other sites)

Someone (in the trade), said to me recently that independent theatre isn't cool, so it doesn't get the coverage or the patronage of the larger companies or sport. Ummmmm I must have been in denial for years. I thought it was cool - I think it is a cool place to be!

One should always look to source if something isn't working quite how one would like it too. So for me, as an indi theatre maker, I am looking for what I need to do to increase patronage, love and demand for independent work. At the moment I am thinking it is still in the area of the perception of theatre - so what can I do to transform that.

Answers on a postcard.

PS. All next week is the climax (yes, folks it is that good) of the Metro Arts Creative development program. Much exciting new work gets birthed here, so SUPPORT AND SPROOK OUR TRADE!! And come and see what your mates have been up to :) http://www.metroarts.com.au/?page=14&theMnth=09-06&a=item248

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Kathryn Fray from Red Hill says:

Hey Flloyd

Just wanted to say we are not dark ATM we are in the CDF at Metro - come and see us! Next wed night. And then straight into rehearsals again. I just didn't want to promo on Kath's blog :) I don't think we will have had a dark moment all year... (not even when I close my eyes and try and sleep...)

I like this bit you said:

I so dearly want Brisbane to get off this roundabout, I want us to bite the bullet and admit our shortcomings, and take some radical steps to change the situation. And yes, I do believe it is up to us, the creative people who actually make the work, to do the changing. We live in a culture which is determined to make someone else responsible for getting things done, so we have the politicians who believe it is their job to tell artists what they should be doing, rather than - as a chap said recently at a very interesting forum - asking the artists what they need.

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Barbara from Brisbane says:

Oh, Katherine- this is something that I have wrestled with for all of my professional life. Why are the arts not respected in this country? There are so many theories going around in my head, and they do so every day (yes, I should get a life, but the arts are my life).

The Australian community is weaned on a media onslaught of sport. Now, before we scream and shout, I am not against sport- I myself am a follower of AFL- not madly, but I have been know to shout at the tele on grand final day, as I and my friends tuck into a bucket of prawns and a few beers- oh, alright- a nice chaddy- BUT- I finding more and more these days that the media coverage of sport, especially football in all codes has been taking over EVERYTHING! I watched the ABC news last week and 23 minutes of that bulletin was devoted to- headline- swine flu in sport, then, another NRL player being caught with a woman in his room. then, the Australian cricket team losing a match, then then the world news (7 MINUTES)- and then THE SPORTS REPORT!!

I wrote this on Tonya Turners web blog in The Courier Mail, and I am sorry that I am copying it here, but it really does come from my heart-

I passionately hate that Australia de-values the Arts so badly.

Without the Arts, we would not have radio, television, paintings that we have in our houses, books, film, MUSIC, your house ( yes, it was designed by and artist, as was your car, the bridge you drive over, the chair you sit on, the website you go to ), and pretty much every joyous and challenging thing that makes the world go around. And down to the basics- there would be no advertisments on television or the radio- where would the advertisers be without the actors who play the roles in their ads? "Oh, don't worry, I will get Aunty Susan to do the ad". Oh, and by the way- the football jerseys that the footballers wear- designed by an artist. ( I added this bit for this blog)

As my Dad used to say- “The Arts make people think and question and debate- it is no wonder that governments in this country don’t really want to support them, they are afraid of a thinking society- God forbid that they support the Arts as much as they should be, but imagine a world without the Arts- we would have nothing and our brains would be bland and uninteresting and lacking in intelligence. The world would stop.”

Adding to this- John Howard never went to the theatre- he was famous for his lack of support, but get him in trakkie dacks (yikes!) and he would fling himself in front of the camera, to be seen to be supporting any sports team. Again- I am not against sport, but please- ENOUGH!

I could go on and on about this, but the bottom line is this- there has to be a balance. Children should know that the book they are reading was written and drawn by artists. It is a matter of educating society. Exposing them to the arts and letting them know that The Arts are not elitist, they are for everyone- cliched as that might seem.

This debate could go on forever, but I still love my Daddy's view. A wonderfully articulate farmer, who loved Shakespeare- and cricket.

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Flloyd from Milton says:

I LOVE this discussion.

Please can we continue to talk, and berate each other, and kick our own asses and get up off them and do as Kath Fray says, transform the place (and to do that, we have to transform ourselves).

Yes, we could do with decent, whole-hearted funding, but it ain't gonna happen until society gets the message, and elects pollies to make it so. And that ain't gonna happen until we provide them with a consistent, quality product of varying shapes, colours, sizes and textures.

Can you all please check out www.BrisCulture.com as this may evolve into a suitable forum and lobbying and support system if enough of us get on board and make it happen. Together.

Posted 269 days ago
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Flloyd from Bardon says:

I LOVE this discussion. We need to say these things out loud, AND we need to do something about it, as Kathryn Fray says.
Once again, I suggest trying to use BrisCulture as a forum, lobbying and support group for grass roots action.

Posted 269 days ago
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Sean Mee from Brisbane says:

Ben's post: "The pessimism of people like Sean Mee, Zane Trow and Ian Brown, who should be leaders, has a corrosive effect on the whole scene."

Ben, you'll need to back this global statement with some factual evidence. Both about the pessimism and the corrosive effect.

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Zane from Slacks Creek says:

..."should be.." ben..you wrote for news ltd for far too long.... ;-)

i am not sure that running an organisation in brisbane that only programmed contemporary work and included well over 50% of local work (as policy..not by accident), and very often didn't charge local artists anything for using the venue, and contrary to prevailing mythologies was the 10th highest ticket selling subsidised arts organisation in country at the time...counts as corrosive?

or perhaps...most recently...running an entirely independent artist initiative/event that brought performance artists into brisbane from every continent in the world bar africa (sorry africa)...and put them alongside local young artists, all of whom have developed international exchange and dialogue for their work because of it counts as...pessimism...?

and both these very different initiatives always met their expected audience levels and budget ben.

however, not wanting to protest too much, but..

having been called arrogant and pretentious and now pessimistic and corrosive on this, primarily arts industry blog..one feels it best not share opinions or ideas at all....since having any and stating them publically in brisbane always (in my humble experience) leads to personal attacks of some kind, rather than any considered attempt at robust debate...having been involved in public debate on the arts in australia for over 20 years across four cities it is only brisbane that has ever responded to me in this way. so....i will now withdraw in order to protect myself (again) and my children (again) from unnecessary pain and embarrassment.

I should never have started (again..serves me right eh?). all the best with it, bye.

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Kathryn Fray from Red Hill says:

El -Robbo: the Flloyd, Foy and I have been much twittering about this, but have a question out of interest. Are the 66 companies working pretty much all the time? In that do that have full seasons? Also you said they are paying. On the whole do you know whether this is artists agreements or all union fees? We are just trying to get a point of reference. Particularly to what PROFESSIONAL means. How do the good folk of North America descibe it? On a personal note - is there an 'off season' like here? (I think my head fell off and rolled down the drain when I was first told no-one goes to the theatre from Nov - Feb in Bris. UK's busiest time!! Yea yea, its cold and dark and we need some where to go to cheer up, but here it is OUTRAGIOUSLY HOT so I though folks would like going to an aircon'd venue to be entertained rather than chasing the fan at home...) I ask because I wonder how much time per year they have to run their professional companies / productions. Dude, you have sure as heck opened a good ol' can of chatter here! I for one am glad.

I am now gonna be straight as: HOW MANY PROFESSIONAL COMPANIES DO WE REALLY HAVE HERE? There are some groups in town that call themselves one thing but are def something else. This is DAMAGING, and for members of the GP who trott off to see a piece labled 'professional' and it is less than that, why the hell would they go again and try a different mob? What is PROFESSIONAL, INDEPENDENT, PRO AM, AMATURE, FRINGE (I think this one is more to do with where you are doing it rather than a standard). What do these terms mean? and then for us trade - where do we lie?

Oh and by the way - you want to know one reason that is putting some folk off going to the theatre? QTC, LB and the Independents Program at Metro all have $20 (or there abouts) tickets available. Other venues and companies (pension concession aside) are asking around $35 (no MEAA concession either!) AND BEFORE SOMEONE SAYS but it is at least that to go to the football or races, they have a given audience now, and we need to face it guys WE DON'T!! So if we want to build up our client base we should make it accessable and affordable (esp. ATM when disposable income is less for many). And sport does this too! A couple of recent AFL games at the G had a 'buy one, bring a mate' games for teams that had a smaller fan base. The G was packed.

GET RESPONSIBLE! Get critical - and I don't mean being a rude idiot about someone or their work. You can not like something or someone but can be objectively critical about it/them (or if you can't, shut up. Didn't your mother teach you not to say anything if you can't be NICE?) We need to start maturely critically apprasing the work here. I saw something the other week at a major venue that made me want to leave the profession it was so bad. It had sold a lot of tickets. I am not sure where to responsibly feed that back to, but my fear was that that ONE production could have turned some people off theatre for life. It called itself a major professional production, and I think, simply because the performers in one way or another were getting money.

Discuss. I have to go now to a TVC casting, where I will be one a handful of trained professionals and the others will be the pretty people (who are nice as well!). Wonder who will get the job?...

Posted 268 days ago
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Katherine_Lyall-Watson says:

Hi Zane,

I hope you don't leave this discussion. You have been a catalyst for all sorts of debate and energy - often because people have disagreed with your point of view.

I'm sure you've known when you've been controversial and when you're likely to get a passionate response from theatre lovers. I've thought that's been part of your intention - to get people off their butts and engaged. And it's worked. Thank you.

I'm sorry you feel you have to shut up.

I'd like to ask everyone writing on this blog to respect other people and their opinions. Disagree and argue your point - but please don't attack each other.

I think unity and passion are what we having going for us as an industry. Or could be what we have going for us - if we get it together...

Posted 268 days ago
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Flloyd from Bardon says:

Please, please Zane, stay on board. I should have said this before, in response to your original post, I agree with so much of what you said, and I also have a slightly different take on a few things. Gee I'm glad you SAID THEM! Don't go quiet. That's what I've been doing, and it hasn't helped me at all.

Re governments of all shades seeking to “control and regulate” culture, yes, I have been shocked at how that functions here. My particular gripe relates to the fact that the so-called Brisbane Festival Fringe is CURATED by the powers that be, funded by the ptb, and in no way constitutes what I consider to be a Fringe Festival. Fringe performers do stuff because they want to, in spite of the ptb, not because they provide what the PTB want!

Yes, I agree that Brisbane has “loads of bad amateur theatre which claims to be commercial when it suits it or community when it suits it”. I think those who write about theatre here have a lot to answer for, the quality of theatre criticism is appalling (with very few exceptions) – I mean no personal attack – and I understand that this is an Australian problem, not just one for Brisbane. In that, I think our academic institutions have a lot to answer for, they turn out graduates who are under the impression that they know how theatre works, and how it is made. In fact, they only know some theories about how it has been made, but they are, for the most part, deeply uninformed about the practical exigencies of creating, or of appreciating theatre. Not their fault, it is the way of the beast of academia. (and by the way, I think this is also why we have so few competent, let alone excellently talented directors).

Brisbane, or at least its public spokespeople, do tend to crow about how “progressive and leading edge it is when it obviously isn't”. We do not have a world class orchestra, or ballet company or theatre company in Brisbane, but it’s pretty hard to change the ways of the people in power, those with access to the media, who are, to be fair (I can do that too!) trying to promote Qld to the best of their ability. They are just sadly ignorant of the fact that it is not their job to tell the cultural workers how to be creative, it is their job to support those workers to do their job better. And it’s probably not their fault if they have never actually experienced world class anything. I was lucky myself to be in Glasgow when it spent a year as European City of Culture, and it did so by bringing in the very best of Theatre from all over the world. What a year that was... But I also had access to the Edinburgh Festival, where unfunded, crazy people from all over the world turn up each year to do their thing because they love it, because they have to, because it's what they do. Ah, get over it, Flloyd.

A community “collective voice independent of Government” would be a fine thing indeed. I’ve been here long enough to have lived through ACT and TANQ, both of which died the death which comes from having the loudest voices being the “Why can’t I get funding?” brigade, rather than those who got on with making work happen, who get very tired of going to meetings and hearing the same old-same-old complaints every time. As you and I are well aware, nobody gets funding by believing they have a right to it, and getting funding under the current system is no guarantee that the work is of real value to the creative community (which means to the wider community also). So there is a real problem, no – a tension – always, between lobbying for better access to decent funding, and just whinging because somebody else got it.

I am so with you on the concept of “give government a hard time (a really hard time) without fear”. Your statement deserves a second outing:
“Every time the Premier or Qld Arts Minister says something like "Queensland is leading the way in the arts...." there needs to be an industry press release out to every single media outlet..the same day...signed on behalf of everybody..saying "the Minister is talking absolute rubbish...".

Yes, “We need more theatres (buildings) that artists can afford to hire”. At the recent BrisCulture Forum, (funded by Brisbane City Council, btw, somebody knows how to work the system…) one of the keynote speakers told of a project he ran in Newcastle (I think), in which he discovered that there were buildings lying empty in the city centre, because of massive decline in the local economy. He managed to get access to them, and to fill them with artists of all kinds, hence generating lots of creative activity which naturally fed into the community, enhancing the quality of life and Generating Income for all concerned, including the local and wider community. I was very excited by this speaker’s contribution, and terribly disappointed when the subsequent question time was hi-jacked by policy makers, rather than allowing the arts workers in the room to toss some ideas around. Although the last person to speak before I had to leave did say “We Need Venues!” to loud applause.
It is no secret, and it’s no illusion. Venues in Brisbane are too expensive, and there are buildings and good rehearsal and working spaces lying empty because the landlords are greedy.
OK, I’ve ranted back. I hope you will stay on board, and I hope there will be more disputing – with evidence – in the most constructive and collegial way possible.

Posted 268 days ago
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Zane from Slacks Creek says:

katherine, floyd - ta but..in brisbane over the last 10 years i've had news ltd. journalists ringing every organisation i've ever worked for asking them if i am a sexual deviant or economically fraudulent. i've been physically threatened by religious right protestors and i've had my family scared to go out at nite and i’ve been accused of corrupting queenslands youth on local channel nine prime time news and my career and my own psychology have suffered.

the language i use and the positions i take..well i am well aware they are going to cause an affray amongst right wing journos and moralistic politicians..but i never expect that kinda viciousness to come from the arts community itself…and members of the brisbane arts community were the first to ring news ltd and call me a post-modern communist homosexual deviant corrupting queensland culture. i kid you not.....i do not make any of this stuff up.

so i don’t have the time or the emotional self preservation strategies left to deal with it any more……

so then ben who is ex-news ltd and i’ve not seen him on the blog before and he suddenly appears after i’ve used their name..paranoid? moi? yes...scary? oh yes, definitely and he says i “should” be a leader………even if he's not part of the problem then i would have thought, if he's actually a decent person, he'd have thought about it all a bit more

………..and i’m not sure if it’s possible to effectively "lead" the brisbane arts industry from the logan central centrelink dole queue but i've been doing my best…..

and be aware..if you all challenge the cultural status quo in brisbane the status quo will fight back..and they have all the ammo so take great care…talking openly about contemporary culture in brisbane is dangerous...think about it.

as joe strummer might've said - i fought the law and the law won...........ciao.

Posted 268 days ago
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Kathryn Fray from Red Hill says:

I am filthy MAD atm. Zane - you have ranted against traditional forms of theatre and got my back up heaps here of late, but as my flat mate, and the fello Kath here and Flloyd have said - at least you posted and at least you caused a reaction. You and I come from a place where there is a different attitude to the arts, and certainly in the 80's, our communities took on the governments. Some we won and some we didn't. In the 80's artists INSPIRED politicians (I thought it was VERY creative of the GLC to hang a banner every day big enough to been seen across the river by Maggie with the country's unemployment rate painted on it).

I did not know about half the crap you have had here that you posted above. And I am pretty tired of the personal and unprofessional attitude by the community here. Brisbane: some artists leave here for economic reasons and some leave coz it can be really small minded. Katherine - so many people have been personal on this blog and it is a disgrace. (I refere to other conversations this year too)

The question is not how many proffessional companies but how many proffessional artists do we have in Brisbane?

To you all out there: Now is our time to lead. Now in times of economic decline, global social unrest (Iran and Somalia specifically today), now when there is a shift in conciousness, is the time when artists be the change. Zane, I request you pay a little more respect in your writting to art forms that don't float your boat BUT I also request that you end your experiences of the past and show HOW to get what you want (esp. from govenments) - because you are brave enough to do it.

The me me me way of being has got us globally to this point. I am a stand for a little more community community community. If you are not a clearing for inclusivity then audiences will not come in the first place!

SO lets start by BEING proffessional, doing proffessional things - like upping the standards and maturely responding to each others work (and that includes critiquing), and then we will HAVE a thriving proffessional theatre community.

I start by inviting you all to Metro Arts this week where there is the Creative development festival. Us lot that have thrown our hat over the wall WANT AND NEED your PROFFESIONAL feedback on the works we are creating. So come along! 7pm wed - fri. $5 and wine :)

Are you ready to take it on?

Posted 268 days ago
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Flloyd from Bardon says:

In response to Zane and to Kathryn, I'll try to be brief.

Zane, I am so sorry to hear of your experience in Brisbane, which I find both shocking and yet I'm not really surprised. It confirms what I have long suspected, that Brisbane has still a very long way to go before it will be the kind of open-minded, inclusive society some elements within it dream of. As a friend reminded me today, it is not so long since the Jo years, when people were afraid to speak out against corruption, injustice and openly expressed racism and homophobia.

That we didn't know this was going on (Zane's experience) is, in a way, even more shocking, and demonstrates how much work we need to do as a community with common interests to support each other, and to demonstrate our solidarity with each other, over and above any differences we may have about the kind of work we engage in. If we stay in our little boxes, protecting our little patches and refusing to commit to mutual support then nothing will change. Divide and conquer is the name of the game, but we don't have to agree to play it.

I personally don't see much hope of a recognizable shift in the local culture within society generally in the next fifty years or so, because it takes a couple of generations for that to happen. The USA has more theatre companies per capita because it has had longer to establish the fact that it needs theatre, or performance, and its creative artists have had two hundred years more of colonial history to build upon, to develop their infrastructure, both hard and soft. And they are still struggling, and let's face it, performing artists have always had to struggle, throughout recorded history!

So, I reckon Kathryn and I are agreed here, that the answer in the first instance - THIS instance - is to get our heads down, tails up, and make cracking work, aspiring to the highest standards and then some. We may not make our fortunes, but we will at least be doing what we love, and getting better at doing it all the time. I am certainly not going to attempt to fight City Hall, and if the opportunity comes for me to move elsewhere, I will do so without a second thought. Brisbane has not been unkind to me, but it has not fed my spirit or settled my soul.

I wish you all joy in your endeavours, and hope to see you in a convivial establishment with a glass on wine in hand very soon.
Flloyd

Posted 267 days ago
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Sam Clark from Cooraproo says:

Interesting discussion, heres my thoughts on this seeming lack of professionalism and community.

I believe that it stems from this percieved (and proliferated) idea that we MUST be like Syd/Melb - they do this better and that better etc. This creates a kind of perception in QLD artists that they need to be critical of everything in order to sound intelligent. Many times I have heard local artists slagging off a show up here - before they've even seen it - and then go on to say "Oh I wish we were in Melbourne, life would be so much easier and the work is sooooo much better"

I say this is BULLS*T, I've have seen indy and professional shows in both those states and I stand by the fact that Brisbane is producing work that is of the same quality (if not higher). We need to stop pining after a southern dream and create our own identity up here. There is no reason why Brisbane can't be the cultural hub of Aust. we just need to work at creating a system that works for our own community. We are different from the other states and should be proud of that, not try and create a poor imitation. Its not good for the artists and its not good for the industry.

Anyway, thanks

Sam

Posted 266 days ago
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Zane from Slacks Creek says:

The last post from Slacks Creek...excuse bad spelling and the hurried, atrocious punctuation.
"show HOW to get what you want (esp. from govenments)"

http://www.artscampaign.org.uk/

Based entirely on membership fees..That is...arts orgs and artists of all kinds paying (working together - shock horror) for their own lobby process.

Been tried and spectacularly failed in Australia a number of times...should be tried again (and again and again...)...and people burn out...and Australian arts organisations are useless at collaborating, especially at the top end, the Australian ruling class can meet the Minister and the Premier and the PM any time they want...

(NB the recent Sydney Theatre Co and festival funding increases while funds to independent NSW art suffers http://gloomfestival.blogspot.com/ - rather like all that capital works money at Southbank eh?)

So...collective independent action via a sliding scale of membership fees, a worked out manifesto and a part time worker who does nothing but put out press releases against every single government arts related announcement...Victoria, I think (could be wrong) still has an Arts Industry Council??..Which for example, when I was on the Board, used to do a complete and comprehensive published critical response to every State Government budget each year. This forced Government to dialogue. It even got Kennett (yes eeeeeeven Sir Jeff) to a Board meeting.
Whaaaaat??? An Australian State Premier came to an independent Arts lobby Board meeting...???? Yes..he had to, 'cause if he hadn't he'd have had to explain why he refused to the Fairfax press. Of course The Hun just spent every column inch it could attacking the Council as elitist left wing chardonnay swilling latte drinking post-modernists living the high life on the iron lung of your hard earned taxpayers money...which goes to the heart of an essential Queensland problem. No decent arts journalism (that's journalism, remember it?? it's slightly different to reviewing and attacking art, artists and arts subsidy at every turn...).
Thus, perhaps an entirely self funded arts street mag (yes on line as well but the physical object on the street does more as direct political impact). Free, and dropped everywhere the street press is dropped..like a Qld Real Time (yes Real Time is often crap..It’s just an example ok?)...this would have to attract advertising..So all arts orgs would have to agree (there's that collaboration word again..) to advertise regularly in it. It would do two things...push critical writing and investigative journalism....and act as a marketing vehicle for the arts orgs that usually have no marketing avenue...also..If everyone in Qld boycotted Arts Hub..(which is a for profit monopoly with no philosophical agenda of any kind other than to make money) and used the Qld mag and it's on line version to post job listings...well...then we'd be talking turkey.

5 years ago a ruff costing for this worked out at $10/12k per year, with the editorial work picked up and shared between two already funded orgs (IMA and Powerhouse....we both left our respective jobs before doing it....)...this editorial would’ve added another $10k as in kind prt time wages...nowadays...$25/30k a year easy...I prt time worker, with printing and other advertising as sponsorship, maybe....
So, not rocket science...30 funded arts organisations donate $1000 (peanuts) each to a not for profit model...this model has a small (3 people max.) editorial board and 1 prt timer. They donate the money..they do not demand anything for their donation (what you mean they just give away money for nothing? Yes they do, that’s what collaboration means in this case – trust, empathy, altruism – that kinda old fashioned stuff)..and they’d actually get a magazine and a collective voice they currently haven’t got, cheaply. They also agree to advertise. Advertising would be real cheap in the first year. 4 issues over 12 months...reviewed at end of year to see if it can be viable..if not ditch it...but in those four issues lobby like crazy and generate decent debate...just imagine....
The problems:
1. Loads of different arts organisations in Queensland would have to actually talk to each other and stop bitching now and again
2. Arts Queensland would not be allowed anywhere near it so it’s dangerous
3. News Ltd would attack it, so it’s even more dangerous
Everyone would have to TAKE A RISK.....
And as Harry Nilsson would say...thank you..and goodnight.

Posted 266 days ago
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Katherine_Lyall-Watson says:

The debate has been continuing over at FriendFeed on the World Theatre group (http://friendfeed.com/worldtheatre). As it's not available to everyone here, I thought I'd summarise some of the issues that have been raised.

The biggest question was defining professional and independent. What makes a professional? Is it just about being paid or is it about being trained and having skills beyond those of non-professionals?

There have been points raised about the lack of consistency and lack of rigour seen in Brisbane theatre - and this has been argued against as well.

There's been a comment that the default sound coming out of most independent theatre makers' mouths is a whine - why can't I get funded? etc.

And there's been a comment that funding should only go to companies who have established themselves. You have to have some runs on the board before you get govt funding.

Hmm - enough here for another post. Working on it now.

Posted 264 days ago
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Ben Eltham from Melbourne says:

It appears my comment caused some offence, so I'm sorry for that. Zane, Sean and Ian, I apologise unreservedly.

What I was trying to point out is that I've sat in many meetings and fora, and read many articles with and from Zane and Sean where I don't feel like the tone has been that positive. There's a lot of talent and a lot of commitment in the Brisbane arts scene and I sometimes think our more prominent practitioners don't communicate their passion, enthusiasm and commitment as clearly as possible. But coming to Melbourne, I was struck at how positive many of the theatre practitioners are down here; they tend to get on with making great work and don't waste too much effort bemoaning the health of the scene. This is just a personal observation and perhaps I was being overly provocative.

Basically my point was that a more optimistic approach from those who do enjoy regular work and positions of leadership in the Brisbane scene would make a positive impact.

Zane, I didn't mean to detract from your outstanding record so I apologise for that too.

By the way, while I am often highly critical of many News Ltd newspapers, particularly in regards to their political analysis and position on climate change, there are some outstanding arts journalists working for The Australian and the Courier-Mail; certainly when I was writing for the Courier-Mail for Rosemary Sorensen, she couldn't have been more supportive of the Brisbane theatre scene.

Posted 263 days ago
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Katherine_Lyall-Watson says:

Thanks for this, Ben.

I enjoy having robust debate on this blog - it's one of the things that makes people coming back to it. Having said that, it would be good if we can keep comments from being attacks on individuals.

I hope that anyone who was upset by your post goes back to it and re-reads your suggestions 1-5. They were excellent and worthy of further discussion.

Posted 262 days ago
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Zane from Slacks Creek says:

What Sorenson understands about the arts in Australia could be written on a grain of rice with a whiteboard marker.

Posted 261 days ago
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Ben Eltham from Melbourne says:

Zane, I'd like to defend Rosemary Sorensen. She is a highly knowledgeable arts writer and editor and I think her publication record backs that up.

I'd just like to pull out one recent example, which was an interview with Luke O'Sullivan written by Rosemary for The Australian about the Hi-Fi Bar's new venue in West End:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25394435-16947,00.htm...

This is a valuable article which garners important first-person research, communicates an interesting policy perspective from an industry figure, and reports on an important milestone in the development of Brisbane's live venue scene.

Posted 261 days ago
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tony says:

I thought you signed off Zane. Three times I counted, all with fanfare. John Farnham or Nellie Melba?

Posted 260 days ago
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